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Post by sorlaize on Aug 13, 2016 16:34:58 GMT
This thread is dedicated to all of your problems, concerns, your worries, and frustrations pertaining to Xenosphere's second wipe. This platform is intended to allow players (the backbone) to voice their grievances on a more public platform. There is honestly no point in criticism if it is lost to the depths of OOC, so I urge you folks to speak up. Edit: After a heated discussion earlier, I have compiled a slew of logs for players and admins to lament on. While some of this information may seem incriminating, I can assure that these have been archived for the sake informing. That's it. pastebin.com/FQfwEJNh
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Post by sorlaize on Aug 13, 2016 16:44:43 GMT
Problem: Nevets & his goons (Saten is cool) Solution: Replacement Fin. Mind elaborating on your situations with Nevets (and which goons)? As for what I have first-hand experienced (since I quit the wipe fairly early); I recall an admin popping up to the AL preaching about the upcoming update while attempting to leave us all in mysticism. Now I do not mind surprises, but the tone and delivery left the impression that admins don't feel players know what they want and/or are not competent enough to provide great ideas. I say this because he firmly spoiled that the game will be revisiting the %stat system, and after I had told him many would quit and that this ought to be decided by a VOTE (as should FUTURE decisions like ADMINISTRATION POSITIONS or volatile CONTENT UPDATES), he confidently said that it's not up to players and the system is mandatory (without clearly explaining -why-). That mentality disturbs me and I feel this sense of disparity between players and admins will continue being this game's downfall. As of now, it's no better than all its other iterations in the past (so when I say 'continue being this game's downfall', it is being lumped with a ton of other DBZ RP communities).
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Post by saiyanhalfie on Aug 13, 2016 16:57:15 GMT
Mind elaborating on your situations with Nevets (and which goons)? As for what I have first-hand experienced (since I quit the wipe fairly early); I recall an admin popping up to the AL preaching about the upcoming update while attempting to leave us all in mysticism. Now I do not mind surprises, but the tone and delivery left the impression that admins don't feel players know what they want and/or are not competent enough to provide great ideas. I say this because he firmly spoiled that the game will be revisiting the %stat system, and after I had told him many would quit and that this ought to be decided by a VOTE (as should FUTURE decisions like ADMINISTRATION POSITIONS or volatile CONTENT UPDATES), he confidently said that it's not up to players and the system is mandatory (without clearly explaining -why-). That mentality disturbs me and I feel this sense of disparity between players and admins will continue being this game's downfall. As of now, it's no better than all its other iterations in the past (so when I say 'continue being this game's downfall', it is being lumped with a ton of other DBZ RP communities). Good question my friend. It just seems to me that the owner (Jaja) is having complete faith in Nevets and agrees with any bullshit he does such as stripping people he can't stand oocly (I.e. PotentBeing / Fett) When I messaged him about how he shouldn't act like he's the fucking God of this realm and that he just makes himself look like a second EXGenesis he refused to acknowledge any flaw on his end and accused me of 'backstabbing' him when I shared this very opinion on OOC. He overreacts affects the owner negativly and only seeks to glorify himself. He even said I would literally ask to get banned simply for and I quote 'taking shots at him on OOC' Animeiscool did the same thing and he would still be banned had the people not stood up for him. When we got Anime unbanned by Nevets he even was like 'This is no accomplishment we were far more lenient this wipe.. Etc..' And then he tried to strip a nigga for grabbing an afk person without moving them a tile, then rapidly changed his mind in quick succession. Some samples of the case at hand, he kept on grabbing at the air to make more shit up: gyazo.com/7e819e61d4c01d4e9c35cb0559c6da2a gyazo.com/2b1689a06ee657b6efa3bdac043799d0 gyazo.com/75d0759506b63d6c9c2d8ee8e2d9771fAfterwards he came with his most conveniant excuse, 'We had you on our radar for a while now, you were meant to be stripped.' Yada-yada.. The question is, is that who you want as a HA? A guy that only takes his way or sends people off to cross a highway. Do you want another Lewis (EXGen), LukeHellsingValentine - when he clearly had proven in the past that he isn't cut out for any of this? This'll set an example, for this post in itself will get him triggered beyond believe and me on his radar. Watch him go through my logs to see who I Oocly grabbed without RP just to get me out of the way. Or maybe he won't look for any excuses this time around. Let's just wait and see. Edit, Nero's input on this: Nevets drinks warm pepsi bro ignore his existence. - Nero 2016 Edit 2: Nevets_DBM muted SaiyanHalfie for 300 seconds for the following reason: "Clearly just baiting and trolling, trying to rile people up.". Nevets clearly giving in to his personal hatred.
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Post by sorlaize on Aug 13, 2016 17:17:37 GMT
When we got Anime unbanned by Nevets he even was like 'This is no accomplishment we were far more lenient this wipe.. Etc..' And then he tried to strip a nigga for grabbing an afk person without moving them a tile, then rapidly changed his mind in quick succession. Some samples of the case at hand, he kept on grabbing at the air to make more shit up: gyazo.com/7e819e61d4c01d4e9c35cb0559c6da2a I'll have to admit that very specific (and easy-to-forget) rules such as a toggle seems like an exploitable method for punishing someone. I'd suggest a feature where the game forces non-native Majins (or allow the majinizers to control their victims' activation/deactivation) to remain in that form. This will alleviate the rule and prevent shady situations where players are stripped, etc over potentially forgetting to re-toggle a verb or in situations where the toggle may revert itself.
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Post by Darth-Chibi on Aug 13, 2016 19:49:44 GMT
Nevets has many a time now tried hunting down people who don't agree with his position as Head Admin. This includes going along with accusations without fair investigation. (IE.AnimeIsCool) He went as far as to say that he was zanzoing across walls when that wasn't the case, banned him for bug abuse, and after massive OOC complaints he folded under the pressure of the players. Marking PotentBeing as an enemy as well so he decided to 'reach' as Holocaust said for reasons to strip him. One main thing he said was that he metagamed to kill someone with OOC yet that person was the cause of his death. It just goes to show how weak-minded and salt ridden he is to target specific players that don't want him as Head Admin. That is why he does his utmost to punish them as players. It isn't helping the game at all. And when someone does mention the fact about all this he says, "Well go have fun with whatever other game you play." Please, this guy is waste of the position. Move him out and make WBDM Head Admin. At least he listens to what the players say when corruption is brought up aside from the rest.
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Post by fireman1221 on Aug 13, 2016 22:59:38 GMT
www.strawpoll.me/10985352/r^ Im making votes I can say that I am one of the Do not Care but If people want him gone for good reason then let him be gone. XS is a game. A game for the players and admins alike. Admins are there to make decisions but damned boys if the admins want him gone too then there is a problem here.
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Post by Relkreim on Aug 13, 2016 23:40:22 GMT
Alright I'll start from the top and that people have said a lot, and apologies for the wall of text: Nevets is feeling like a somewhat insecure admin that is managing things as a tyrant that swears they know best, more than 'Ok your point is noted' to figure out more solutions. Yes, I will give him that OOC feels hilariously biased and one-sided and mobs like all hell and back, and you folks on OOC are basically mobbing over the smallest things sometimes, but there are cases of rather blatant stretching for things, from the complaints towards the Majin he tried stripping of character, which later was stripped anyway due to a 'rare chance bugged' which I honestly have to question WHY they had to be deleted if there were only one or two Majin's to begin with, why they can't be edited back to being no longer bugged for use if it's only one or two, but whatever it was only 2 people getting screwed out of characters, which isn't the best of mindsets now that I think about it. The fact that one of his big points I've seen him argue back was not towards why this idea was good, but instead "I have run servers I know what I am doing." towards more issues than he actually explained his reasoning, makes me worry more than the fact that I feel his reasoning for what he has explained feels backwards.
Now, with that out of the way, Year Speed. 2 years a day is, well, a design choice. But when I hear 20 years is a person's peak, and some may die quick as in 30-50 years, unless your new generation kid grows in power so obscenely fast that they can equate your old character's power in about the span of 8 years, I do question if this is a good design choice on a mechanics level, but even then, this feels rather poor of a method if people feel it is too fast. On an objective level, I do feel that it is only very slightly too fast, but that's only because of what I also hear towards decline starting at 30 or 40 for some people, maximum age spans of 70. Nevets' reasoning towards this, was because a slow speed will make RP stagnant, and kids not made to keep the RP going. I argue otherwise, as the slow speed originally made even the supposedly dead/boring Vegeta have quite a bit of interaction, as people grew and changed, tensions shifted towards or for something, the moment year speed kicked into hyperdrive, none of this continued, everyone was too worried about aging out, many left the planet possibly to mate possibly because "Hey we can!" but it all fell through so quickly, leaving only mostly the bonds they've formed before this time. And, on a simple mindset note, if people feel it is too fast, they will feel that because their character is going to go away too fast. Which robs attachment to the character. Which robs any desire or 'proper' RP buildup in favor for "OK DO THIS GET CLOSE MAKE KID" kind of mindsets. I've seen some folks just flat out bail from their previous character mindsets to go off, and it is probably pushed on by this, meaning the only ones who aren't pressured, are the ones that this year speed benefits, won't matter, or they have enough time that this rate is now the same as slow speed was for other races.
Next, are a fair handful of choices, and these aren't exactly exclusive to admins or anything, it falls heavily on player base mindset too. As it stands, as a player, from what I saw from local OOC's, and from what I can tell from my hilariously limited case of playing dragon ball games, summing up to about three months total 'days I played' over the span of about 2 years, this game is leaning heavily towards a more PVP balancing format than a RP narrative format. As it stands, there was/is basically nobody who can or would contest things like a 2 million BP android, or someone of your same race who just had 3x your power level almost arbitrarily. The main means of getting this power, was not training or RP development, but instead, you either went a certain race or rank(Android, Demon, Changeling, etc) or you sided with a faction for power (Kweh's cult as prime example). This resulted in you either having inate ability/build to get an obscenely high power level, mechanics to support it, or simply getting granted a buff for this power. One, that unless it was a 5v1, and even then it likely would fall through, would win out against any normal person you'd encounter. This in turn has lead to a scene I saw where the only real threat Changeling Lord considered on a combat level was the other Evil group. Which means Evil vs Evil was the only valid way to fight. (Unless it's Namekians from what I heard, not saw, but they both tend to stay to their planet as well as be defensive instead of attack so unless they want to suddenly play the heroes, questionable.)
This has then lead to a rather odd issue. The only case I can, at least as a newbie hearing OOC chat/Local OOC chat, has resulted in a very, very narrow list of what can fix it. Either A: A rare appears and can stand against everything. (relies on RNG, and that they don't just add another 'Evil' side.) B: A Kaio, rank, or some admin or otherwise ends up elevating someone into some power to contest things, which while it may make sense narrative-wise, with how the playerbase is, I only feel this will incite QUITE a bit of backlash towards whoever does this, resulting in most likely character/rank/admin being stripped, and possibly retcons. Or C: Transformations happen and can re-tilt the balance of things. However, because of the sides and powers currently present, it's more probable that the reigning forces will actually get a transformation first, which would mean C occuring just 'evens' the playing field just a bit. In short, the most likely 'fix' to this situation as it is, will be an early wipe, as it is, things are unlikely to kick off, because people either are hilariously outclassed, because whoever helps will get beat down and their help removed, or will have to have LUCK play into actually fixing things, instead of anything else.
As for solutions? I've got very few on this wipe. The main reason isn't even Nevets, or the case of Jaja/anyone supporting nevets or bias towards/against admins, it's mostly on playerbase. The 'fix' cases are mostly on either mechanics, which as Nevets has stated, this IS somewhat a test wipe, as they have removed/tweaked/etc some rules, such as apperantly there used to be a rule against expand/focus stacking as a vague mechanics example, that this wipe is partially ment to test, so, things devolving into a mess might even be what is intended sadly enough. On the other hand, the few cases that might fix it and re-balance the scales, are hilariously heavy handed and will require people to not bitch about admins doing things, such as buffing likely heroes or forces, or possibly manually activating rares on people, so as things so much as say, rebellion or resistance groups or ideals can be sparked. This also falls on players to even ask for this, as admins have on many occasions, stated how players may ask for events, and there has also been a striking lack of such events happening ever since many ranks quit.
This also brings to a case based on the next set of ranks for next wipe, and while I heard the ranks were more admin biased this one, that is alright, as they biased to them because they felt they would do well. It is however, likely the case that this mindset towards who gets a rank may have to be altered and changed, favoring both a case of having ideas on what to do, in both situations to cause things, as well as when things have hit status quo, I.E. Changeling lord had to flat out talk to people about "OK what should I genocide?" just to get any actual CL stuff remotely touched on. While they were an effective changeling lord in causing influence and suppression, and setting up things, there was little to do on the 'ok once I am here now what' level. On the other hand, King of Vegeta, who had quite a bit of plans on what to do before space travel was a thing and all, had quit over the player base and because someone pushed his question of "Why am I still here" a bit too hard. I've been hearing ranks are being stripped, quitting, and everything more than "Rank person has done something to properly instigate events or RP". Biggest suggestion towards ranks will be to both get someone who will stay... but also perhaps plan, possibly even collaboratively, on events to happen, on plot hooks that can pop up, possibly so much as even just some event'er just going around throwing story hooks for some intergalactic threat that will make people travel to other planets/to even a deserted planet to fight some threat, if everything has hit a snag on status quo being too heavily a thing.
Lastly, the management and mindset is going to have to shift, for everyone. Both because it's not seeming to work, and both because everything is shifting towards what the one in charge wants, or towards getting some hilariously broken power fast. I'm hearing stuff about "Powergame this" or "Mate to make this" and stuff as some people's ooc mindset, goals, or otherwise, and the current hyper-acceleration for years is not something people are liking, or is positively influencing RP, but it's instead making people disinterested and is actually more seeming to be in favor of "Get things to power sooner", this also was a heavy blow to techies, because while they get years faster for tech, people have instead been saying that tech needs to be scaled differently, and the increase in power has done nothing but to skew the balance towards screwing techies over FASTER than they would be able to stay relevant, not to even mention the case of drill/pylons if they are effected by this year speed increase or not. Even if, theoretically, techies would get the same resources, the same int gain, and otherwise, at the same proportional speed (I.E, same int/resources for 1 year worth of meditating/mining/etc, be that year taking 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 1 day), this means even one lag/disconnect/etc will infact nerf the techie harder than a slower speed, so that also makes no sense. Basically the point of "This helps techies!" is completely backwards and should be rethought, both towards this system of balancing techies, as well as the general drifting/shift towards a more PvP based game than RP. People joining a side for power, going to planets to mate with specific people, or otherwise are all being pushed more to that, than to let RP happen to take them there proper, because they now have less time, and the focus on power gaining is that much heavier/accelerated by time shoving you to maturity before you can really get a feel for how your character will really be.
If this wipe is MENT to test everything like this, to be some 'test' for people, to be some test for rules, then the points brought up are pretty irrelevant, and I can only hope the data you're getting helps. But the zero approval rating is really a dead sign that something is going wrong, that you don't even need to spend a few hours wracking your brain on "OK why do I not like this" to spew out mountains of paragraphs on this, and just going "I have run servers I know what I am doing" really doesn't look like you know ANYTHING on what you are doing, if there is little to nobody saying they like it.
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Post by Jinrai on Aug 14, 2016 3:02:22 GMT
Alright, feel free to rage at me once I post this, to say I am a noob and a terrible role-player (which I really am) and so on. I have several complaints, which may be considered ‘bitching’, if I am to follow the usual dialect on most BYOND games. On with this...
I am fairly new to this game itself, mind you, not to Roleplay and DBZ RP games, although I suck at pretty much everything, including Roleplay, as many admins would be able to attest to, should they ever read my logs and expose the low quality material that makes them up. Anyways, I digress; even I, as the noob that I am, can see that there were several things wrong with this wipe so far, the main one being the fact that Gravity machines were allowed way too early; the moment you see people over 5k BP at year 2 or 3 without leeching from/being a rank or whatever, then there is something really wrong; even now, it is year 21 and some people are past 100k BP, although I do not blame the players who attained such power per se; gravity machines are to blame, in my humble opinion. You may agree, disagree, but it is a true fact... and trust me, I know, because I am a Techie in this game and can, as such, make and I did it one as soon as possible as well, since I thought it’d be no biggie. Boy was I wrong...
Second of all, from the few times my OOC was on, I was able to see that players are generally unhappy and admins (or at least Nevets, from what I was able to gather during the brief glimpses I got from OOC, along with this very post) basically mute them at the slightest, insisting that players are instigating. Should any of you want to contest/punish me for this, go on. However, I find it tremendously odd that each time I log in/turn OOC on due to boredom, since I live in an area with a different time zone, players are complaining for one reason or another. Kind of gets one thinking, wouldn’t you agree?
Third, even though I am a noob myself, I utterly dislike Goku-noobism. And Vegeta was, sadly, filled with it as far as I could see. Few Saiyans were legitimate Saiyans; one of them went as far as to turn his back to a FACTION due to the lack of a decent gravity machine, not giving a single shit, not even a tenth of a shit, in fact, about the possibilities that opposition to the throne could bring at the time, RP wise. Train train, spar spar, next to no IC development. Few of them even had a reason to become strong, using their race as an excuse to blatantly powergame. I hate powergamers, seriously. I, as a Tuffle and as a less significant piece in the chess game that is the planet’s current IC, have probably more RP under my belt than most of the aforementioned Goku-nubs... and I suck at it, in all honesty. I am more active than most, due to insomnias and working at home, which allows me to train and so on whenever I am bored out of my wits... I could even be on par with average Saiyans BP wise if I really wanted to, believe it or not, since my work actually has a considerable deadline; I usually get a month to get a book translated. Add that to my insomnias and I have more free time than most people. I have no life besides working, so yeah. Still, I refuse to power game and so on. I even avoid posting my usual ( and meaningless) RP walls on crowded places, as to avoid getting like... 40/50 RPP’s per large post, as to make sure I don’t get over enablement. Is it so hard to make sure that powergaming is less of a reality? I guess it is. This server has a ton of players.
Dumb question there, as I was an admin on a private DBR server once... and critiques? I had to take them. Whether I liked it or not, the players are the ones really in charge of a wipe. Since Ginseng stated that he had invested good money in maintaining the server (which I do not know if it is true or not, we might as well strive to make it worth it... which brings me to the aforementioned ‘instigation’ and so on. Most admins (and I type this base on experience, mind you) take critiques as ‘instigation’, as one can see in this post quite the amount of bullshit on the example posted by a fellow player; an Admin tried to find THREE reasons to strip a player, quickly changing the charge against said player without batting an eye, as if it was the most normal thing in the world. Tell me if that ain’t a tad too sketchy? The above post states a lot of true facts, indeed, as players seem to be raging over the slightest thing, but that is probably the snowball effect of whatever things they deem wrong; I have OOC off most of the time, as I have stated before, so I am basing these words on the material posted here. Regardless of its presence or not, I would have posted the ‘basic’ thing, i.e., the three factors that I deem wrong. It is, above all, personal opinion on the former and speculation/analysis on the latter.
Feel free to punish me for this; I merely think that the ‘rage’ felt by the players is not as unfounded as other players are being led to believe. I know not if all of them are aware that a forum exists; I certainly wasn’t until yesterday and I really thought this post through, revising it and reworking it several times as to make sure the wording was as clear as possible, within my limited capabilities. I really enjoy this game, I have had fun developing my character from the point in which I established it as soon as I made to this very moment (maybe not THIS moment, since this was typed quite a while ago), discovering/noticing facets of RP that I had not been able to grasp until now. Regardless, I am part of a minority, one that has RP for itself as a main priority, not the results of said RP, i.e., RPP’s. Should I go into try-hard mode, which I have no reason to do, mind you, I would easily cap my RPP’s. I have decent creativity, which is more than enough to pull off enough stunts via good ole Emote verb. The quality would leave a LOT to be desired, but the self-sufficient reward system does not evaluate that, so it would be rather easy, which means that anyone can pretty much do it; if I can, anyone can.
I thank anyone who’s reading this for your time and patience with reading this long-ass post; I have felt this for quite a while but, as I typed before, I only became aware of the existence of a forum yesterday. See you around the forum or in game; feedback would be appreciated. Cheers!
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Nanie
Admin
Head Admin
Head Administrator
Posts: 22
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Post by Nanie on Aug 16, 2016 5:13:18 GMT
Jinrai: That's actually the kind of post I like to see. Don't worry about some sort of backlash for speaking your mind and offering valuable insight on the kinks of the game. If anyone ever tries to retaliate on someone for posting their insights then they really are fools. I like all the ideas about the game mechanics but alas, as my own lore of Code is awful (looks like jibberish to me, jibberish I say) I am not really involved in coding this at all. I am sure our coders though and the dudes who balance out these variables will always appreciate ideas.
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